Wednesday 21 September 2016

Bemused by Bolehill : Confused by Cobnar

What's in a Name?
There were three communities that historically bore the name Woodseats. The largest of the three was Norton Woodseats which sat on the old Sheffield to Chesterfield turnpike, now named Derbyshire Lane. Plain Woodseat was a cluster of cottages at the junction of red and brown roads top left. Botom left was "Higher Woodseats", again at the junction of brown (Abbey Lane) and red (Chesterfield Road).

Between Higher Woodseats and Norton Woodseats ran Bole Hill Lane.
This was developed and renamed as Cobnar Road. Houses were built at the Woodseats end as Chesterfield Road developed pre- and post- World War 1.
Housing was also spreading at the top of the hill (Norton Woodseats) ...
... although the ancient village name slowly disappeared from use.
At the very top of the road was the "Graves Park" bus terminus where, in fbb's student days, service 42 (every 15 minutes) terminated with 33 (every 15 minutes) and 34/35 (every hour) passing by.
Now the stop and that part of Derbyshire Lane has one service 18 every hour!
Although Cobnar Road is shown as a through road on older maps (see map extract above), this is not quite the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Drive (in your Streetview virtual limo) up the hill from Chesterfield Road and you arrive here ...
... a steep footpath with a Sheffield Corporation railing to help the ascent. Once upon a time the greenery on the right of the railing was passable in a motor vehicle - just!
Entry from to top end is now almost a secret ...
... complete with footpath sign and tunnel-like unwelcoming greenery. Modern maps now show the road correctly.
But, faced with the loss of your historic service of nine buses an hour at the top, you could, if you were a fell runner, jog down the hill and use the bus stop at the bottom of Cobnar Road ...
... where you have five 75s to Meadowhead and Jordanthorpe, five 76s to Greenhill and Low Edges, ten 24/5s to Meadowhead and Lowedges and four 43/44s to Chesterfield passing by each hour. From the no-longer-extant Library opposite Cobnar Road you have a bus a little over every two minutes into the City. To this must be added two buses an hour to/from Chesterfield and Matlock numbered X17.

As we might expect, buses that are timed at the Library inbound should have a time point "opp" Woodseats Library outbound.

But that would be silly, wouldn't it. Here is a selection of outbound time points and stop names, the latter are not all situated at or near Cobnar Road. 


The list is by no means exhaustive.

Once again we can enter the debate about user-friendly stop names. As a visitor to an unfamiliar town, fbb likes to have names such that, if he boards at e.g. Woodseats non-Library, he can ask for, and alight at Woodseats non-Library on the return journey. Being University educated and only slowly descending into dotage, fbb is clever enough to know that his return stop is likely to be on the opposite side of the road.

Neither does he need to carry his Silva compass to check which way the bus is facing as favoured by some Traveline locations!

GoTimetable Sheffield, faced with the temporary (?) loss of the Library, has compromised. Both stops are given the same name which covers most eventualities. The full name in the timetables and search results is:-
The map simplifies the location.
Opinions will be divided on the GTT solution and the team is always happy to receive comment from real users of these stops and their associated services.

But if you do happen upon the bus stop at the bottom of Cobnar Road, fbb would not recomment relying on the Travel South Yorkshire information posted thereat. (some of this pictures may need enlarging; just click on the pic)

24 and 25 : no mention of the different routes ...
... but with the implication that both vary between Lowedges and Bradway. In fact they all go to Lowedges but via different roads then, complicatedly, some of each continue to Bradway. The heading is, simply, WRONG.

Generally the Monday to Friday daytime frequency is every six minutes not "every 4-10.
The "y" and "z" notes tell you who opeartes the bus but not where it goes!

Then there are four routes to Chesterfield ...
... all apparently EXACTLY the same.This heading is completely and utterly WRONG,

This notes against the times tell you which route number each bus shows ...
... but give not the slightest indication of which roads the bus follows. The routes are VERY different, even locally in Sheffield.
Thanks a bunch Travel South Yorkshire - your incompetence is, in a word ...

... incomparable!

And for an even dafter piece of useless information here is the 18A.
It says "Monday to Friday see notes" and the "note" reads:-

Important note regarding Monday to Friday Departures.
Operates a revised timetable during school holidays.
For more information call Traveline on 01709 515151

How about saying "Schooldays Only"? This particular 18A runs from High Storrs School - on schooldays amazingly.

Farcical beyond belief!

 Next Slough blog : Thursday 22nd September 


  1. ... and Tesco in Woodseats is long gone! The Original Factory Shop now trades from the site of the former Tesco.

  2. You could rename it woodseats police station. Or if you want to be accurate woodseats police building although I do wonder how long that building will remain in police use

  3. Stop names can be difficult, because you not only have to take into account what is actually there (which is most useful for newcomers or visitors) but also traditional usage.

    A couple of weeks ago I got on the bus, and behind me the young lady asked for a particular stop; the name of a pub. Now this pub has been a Chinese takeaway for at least 15, if not 20 years, and for both us a takeaway for more of our lives than the pub.

    Fortunately the driver knew where she was talking about and could issue the ticket (I believe the farestage, named after the pub, survived much longer).

    The timetable has been changed to name the stop after the road adjacent to the pub, rather than the pub itself, but the local usage still remains.

    As an aside, if I'm talking about the junction I refer to the pub too.

  4. Looking at the photo of the departure times with single letter codes relating to the route numbers, wouldn't it make more sense to actually put the route number by the time instead of a code?

    We have lists with 10 departures per line if it is a single route so the number is not required by each journey. These simply become 6 per line if the list is for more than one route.

  5. Will this vendetta carry on consuming all your energy until the day you die?

    Also, could you start using spell check please?

  6. These incredibly haunted woods are up for sale, with some of the experiences I have had in them I'm hoping they are took away.