Leaving Loopy Lewisham ...

 ... The Great Adventure

By way of a reminder, above we have a historic map of the centre of Lewisham (right) and today's version; which shows the effect of the slab of the shopping centre and the Molseworth Street central bypass road. The High Street runs south to north with a wiggle in the middle.

On that wiggle stands The Clock Tower ...

... which might be a useful definition of the centre of Lewisham.

With that geography lesson in mind, we can begin our search for the bus stops used by the departing BL1. The original "launch" map offers some clues to THREE locations.

Geoff Marshall's map provides some  alternatives!

Transport for London's stop list (TfL is in charge of the BL1) offers only TWO names ...

... with the Clock Tower becoming the Police Station!

Stop "U"

TfL's map version is ...

... does imply that stop U is where the bus starts its gyrations round the town; but for the rest of the route ...

... via the station, it is frankly incomprehensible.

Traveline gives us TWO stop names before the SL1 rejoins its outward route at Loampit Vale ...

... whilst Robert Munster, using TfL's secret timetable database ...

... offers a similar two but bringing us "Limes Grove" as the start point. That is a new "fact", if fact it be! Yes, it be a fact, but not a helpful one!

The arrival stop and turfing out point is on Molesworth Street (top left);  the departure point is Stop U on the lower end of the \high Street and appears to ba called "Lewisham Centre" although it is not really the centre of Lewisham. 

Limes Grove is not obviously near either stop, but does strike off the the bottom right of the aerial view. There it is, right, with the High Street (and departure stop U) straight ahead.

There is a road name board on that big building at the junction ...

... but no bus passenger would ever spot it.

But, some9 dpistance up the High Street, is Stop U.

... where you could join the BL1 for a lovely limited stop (if it weren't for the road works) ride back to Waterloo. fbb thinks it is called Lewisham Centre because the shopping mall is called "Lewisham Centre".

You can spot an entrance to the mall in amongst the melee ...

... where it appears to be called "Lewisham Shopping".

The branding has changed over the years and major development, even demolition, is on the cards.

You can get from terminus to departure via the shopping walk ways ...

... but it is probably easier to follow the road round!

Stop "R"

Or you could try the Clock Tower stop.

This is Stop R, although the ever accurate Traveline thinks it is Stop E. If you have completed your retail therapy, the clock is probably the best place to aim for as it is a fairly obvious landmark and most locals will know where it is! Not only that, but almost everyone agrees on he stop name; that is everyone except Tfl! Remember?

The Police Station is, indeed, a big building, but the BL1 doesn't stop there. For a start it is on the opposite side of the road and there are no stops at or opposite the cop shop!

The clock Tower and stop R are in and just beyond the trees there in the right of the above picture.

Stop "?"

Both the TfL "launch" map and Geoff Marshall shows a stop AT the northern DLR entrance for the railway station.

But no other source offers a stop there. You have to walk from station down the hill and under the bridge to the Loampit Vale outbound stop, waving a fine goodbye to the station stops as illustrated above. Stop F at Loampit Vale is a pig to negotiate ...

... but it is there, under the bridge and across the road, espcially a funtime activity of, say, you have luggage or fractious children. It would be so much easier to exit the station, cross the crossing ...

... and turn left for the bus stops!

But that would be helpful to interchange passengers!

Maybe the BL1 does stop there, but TfL are keeping it a secret, like its bus timetables!

Autumn Puzzle Pictures 7 to 12

Ryde Esplanade - the pier tram once left from somewhere in there!

High Peak Buses - a Julian Peddle Company which was once part of Trent.

Crich - Home of The Tramway Village. The monument rises atop the quarry face where the trams turn to run back to the main site.

Midland General - one of the few historic operators who used a letter and number combo for defining their routes. Another was the original Crosville.

Milford Haven

Kraken - John Wyndham wrote "The Kraken Wakes". Also there is a poem "The Kraken" by Tennyson.

Six more tomorrow!

 Next Baffling BL1 Bits blog - Sat 18th Oct 

Bakerloop? Where? [4]

 We Want To Be Like TfL!

We heard a lot from Andy in he run up to his take over of the buses  (and soon, the trains) in Manchester. In essence his claim was that once Manchester had a fully integrated system just like in London. everything would be hunky and dory and everyone would benefit from lower fares and better services.

At least in Manchester you can find out where the buses go. There are good network maps and good timetable leaflets and good, consistent on-line information. None of these simple aids to travel is available in London.

But, surely, fbb hears you cry, Transport for London has an excellent web site with all the information you could possibly need.

So, the challenge  for TfL, is to find out where the Bakerloop BL1 goes in Lewisham and where the stops might be.

We will start with ARRIVING.

That seems straightforward; there is a useful stoop at or near the station but would that be the DLR station or the National Rail station or both? Tfl also offers a "map" version ...

... which shows a selection of stops near an icon for both stations and the end of the route (labelled BL1) at stop Q. Because of the intrusion of the red line over the rad names, we cannot easily see where the stops are or, more importantly, which stops are served by the BL1.

The straight line diagram shows Stop E for the station and Stop Q as Molesworth Street. As we have already guessed, the station is a bit "round the back" but Streetview shows us that Stop E is, at least, in full view of a DLR entrance. Might the two (DLR and National Rail) be linked by a subway, or shown on signs at street corners.

Here is Stop E courtesy of Streetview ...

... whence a short toddle undr the railway bridge will reveal the DLR station ...

... but no sign at the DLR of the big proper trains. But fbb knows, and his blog readers know, that to get to the traditional Lewishm station you have to walk up Station Road ...

...  where there is a "double arrow" symbol up a pole ...

... then on past the other DLR entrance ...

... and up the slope into the traditional station yard.

Taxis and private cars could take you to the door, but not buses! fbb thinks even cars are banned these days trapped by the dreaded "rising bollards".

Welcome to National Rail at Lewisham! But there is helpful advice for pedestrians on the wall of the other DLR entrance.

It doesn't actually tell you that these are the National Rail platforms (with the number 1 hidden behind that lamp post).

You really would have to know!

How are the benefits of a fully coordinated system working out in Lewisham, then, Andy?

So the next stop on the BL1 (stop U, Molesworth Street) is the terminus. It is a long street with lots of buses. Fortunately a passenger on the BL1 is reaching the end of his/her journey, so the actual location is only of academic value. You will get turfed off somewhere!

Will it be here? There are lots of buses!

But alas, it won't be there; it will be way further along Moldesworth Street at Stop Q.

This is an alighting stop for many routes and there may well be a long line of buses having a little rest before finding their return passengers somewhere else in Lewisham.

Correspondent Gerald, who has bravely ridden the BL1, suggests that you could be deposited anywhere on this long "bus stand" not necessarily AT stop Q. Never mind; on your way to Stop Q you might pass an entrance to the Shopping Centre ...

... which might come in useful if you want to catch a BL1 back in the direction of Waterloo.

For the record here is what Travelne tells you about stops in Lewisham.

Note Traveline's optimism expressed by naming Stop E as "Lewisham Station!"

And Robert Munster, purveyor of TfL's otherwise secret timetables?

Ah? "Loampit Vale" with no mention of any station. 

And the TfL map, revealed only for a limited time when the new route was announced?

Yet another version of the Loampit Vale stop name, showing TfL's ever purposeful drive for consistency ... AND a stop outside the station for departing passengers.

Geoff Marshall includes a self-drawn map on his video of his trip on the BL1; which rather overdoes the Lewisham.

Alas, it is different again! 

But it is, astoundingly, reasonably consistent for passengers arriving for their retail therapy in the shopping centre (what fun!) or for a search for National Rail trains.

Tomorrow we attempt to catch a bus back to Waterloo.

What You Have Been Waiting For?

Sunday Quiz - Answers 1 to 6

Aberystwyth - the Vale of Rheidol line.

Loop - in the UK we might use "turning circle".

1938 - The pre WW2 couplings give the game away!

 4 

Marshalling Yard or Tinsley - little hydraulic rams that either accelerate or retard wagons after they pass over the hump when being shunted.

Class 13 - made up of two standard 0-6-0 shunters. Only used at Tinsley.

St Erth - (Geddit? : Groan!), the branch line platforms for trains to St Ives.

Six more tomorrow.

 Next Lewisham Loop blog : Fri 17 Oct